Submitted by Jim Hirsch on Tue, 02/07/2006 - 11:18am.
Recently we have seen orchestras program concerts clearly intended to attract new, younger audiences to our concert halls. Specifically, I have read about the success of the "Lord of the Rings" concerts, and more recently, the presentation of concerts that use video game music. Here is the question I would like to pose. How far is too far? Personally, the video game music concert crosses a line into pandering that I would not be comfortable with. I have no problem with the "Lord of the Rings" program. What do you think?
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Jeff Dunn (not verified) | Tue, 02/07/2006 - 10:49pm
There is a lot of hand-wringing about disturbing instances of non-traditional approaches to attracting audiences. But not enough attention is given to the reverse: the 90% of concerts that go the same old tired way they've gone on for generations, with diminishing returns.
More concert producers need to take more risks, and different risks, more often. Successful businesspeople brag about how their failures taught them lessons that led to later innovative triumphs. The same should go for classical music presentation.
The trick is to bring your audience along with you. Admit to them that you're experimenting, that life itself is an experiment, that you're not going to scare them with permanent changes, just IMPERMANENT changes.
Another thing: devote as much care to your experimentation as you would to perfecting a Carter quartet. A concert--all aspects of it--are like the pieces performed: a lot of hard work toward a hope of perfection. But after the music is over, you move on to the next concert, the next experiment!
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»Jim Hirsch | Wed, 02/08/2006 - 11:16am
I couldn't agree with you more. One of the things I really like about the Chicago Sinfonietta's programming is this spirit of experimentation you cite. Our audience has been quite wonderful about being open and appreciative to some of our more experimental programs. We are looking to program some concerts for our 2006-2007 season that will include some "push the envelope" elements. For me, there is a fine but important line that keeps our programming from becoming "pops". Nothing against this, just not what I hope our programmatic identity will be. In the meantime, our field needs to continue to find exciting and relevant ways of bringing in the next generations of clasical music fans.
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»Bruce R. Weaver | Thu, 04/20/2006 - 12:32pm
This is an intersting question. I have loved Classical music all of my life. My father introduced me to Gilbert & Sullivan and Beethoven at the early age of nine; then a friend gave me a record "Walt Disney Presents the Lives of the Great Composers and Their Music." The more I heard, the more I loved, and eventually I chose Beethoven as the greatest of them all.
One thing that I think would help to reach people is to educate them about what these great composers went through. Maybe if there were programs dealing with biographies coupled with selected works, I think it would go a long way to interest young people. My father let me borrow the old Milton Cross and David Ewen Encyclopedia of the Great Composers and Their Music. I have always loved how these biographies were written because the authors put in the personalities of these people. The result with me was when I heard the works, they made more sense to me because I had read something about the life and was in sympathy with the artist.
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»Jim (not verified) | Thu, 04/20/2006 - 3:55pm
Bruce,
You are right. Any hook to draw people into the world of classical music should be used. Lets face it, some of these folks were the J-Lo's and Branjelina's of their day, though with a lot less make-up and cosmetic surgery. Yes. we should tell the stories!
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»Jeff_Turk | Fri, 12/14/2007 - 11:25am
Let me first start by saying that this is a great website/forum for classical (serious) music lovers. But I am surprised at the lack of participation there seems to be here. Is there a lack of inspiration? A lack of interest in discussing the future of the classics?
It seems to me that attracting new audiences to the world of serious music starts with educating those around us. Everyone loves the first movement of Beethoven 5. How many times do you hear fragments of Nutcracker during the holiday season (on comercials, in elevators, etc)? So we already have a head start in that the general public is familiar with classical music. The problem is getting people to carry it a step further - they may be familiar with Dvorak 9, but not know who wrote it, or where to find a recording of it. I believe with proper guidence, the general public would listen to more classical music - and maybe this website could serve that purpose to a certain extent.
In terms of programing movie soundtracks for the concert hall - such as the popular John Williams concerts with the CSO, it serves the purpose of getting folks into the venue and experiencing live symphonic music. But hopefully it wouldn't end there. My concern is that this type of program doesn't give one the full concert experience due to the lack of sophistication of the music itself. Not to be a snoot, but the reason people respond to movie music is because they are responding also to the memory of the filmed experience, hence they are not getting the full musical experience one should have when attending a concert. It is kind of like going to a 5 star restaurant and ordering a burger and fries. The burger and fries are wonderful, but lack in the area of complexity and sophistication that you should be going to the restaurant for in the first place. Maybe that person would be inclined to go to that restaurant again and be a little more adventurous in ordering. Or they may decide that they can get burgers and fries a lot cheaper at McDonalds, and it is almost as good.
I would hate to think that people attending a concert of LoTR music would leave less than satisfied because they didn't have the film to go along with the music and therefore would not bother with going again. For that reason, I have no problem with Orchestras programming Beethoven 5, Dvorak 9, etc. year after year, provided they do so in an attempt to attract new blood to the audience. Even a novice surely should get more out of a live performance of Tchaikovsky 4 than LotR. Or maybe that is wishful thinking on my part....
Well, there is my take - almost 2 years after Mr. Hirsch's post...
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»Adrianm | Fri, 12/14/2007 - 1:47pm
I completely disagree that the only reason people respond to the film music to the memory of the filmed experience. Most music in the canon has some resonance of other experience, some sort of outside "text", be it religious, operatic, theatrical, natural or some other source. Film is no less than any of these. The best film composers incorporate and transcend the film and the work can be appreciated without it, as an opera overture can be appreciated without the opera and the Alpine Symphony can be appreciated without actually thinking about an alpine snowstorm.
I strongly believe that film has been instrumental in keeping orchestral music in the Western tradition in the ear of the mainstream public. Bernard Herrman, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams are fine composers that deserve to be heard in concert halls. Philip Glass and John Corligliano, among others, compose for both film and the concert hall.
There's plenty of film music that isn't up to much besides propping up the story, but I think it's a mistake if the whole genre is dismissed.
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»Jeff_Turk | Fri, 12/14/2007 - 2:48pm
I am not dismissing the genre. Ultimately, if you like what you hear, it is good music, and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. But I am suggesting that the majority of the people in the audience at a Lord of the Rings or Star Wars concert like the music because they like the movie - and without the movie the music plays a little thin. I think it is a mistake to compare a Strauss tone poem with this scenario - ultimately, Strauss composed the music to stand on its own. Can you really say that about the Herrmann, Goldsmith or Williams scores? I know a lot of people who love film scores, but hate "classical music." So in that sense, has film helped or hindered keeping orchestral music in the Western tradition in the ear of the mainstream public? I think in a way film has changed things in that the general public needs visual (film) accompaniment to go along with orchestral music in order to fully enjoy it. Imagining an alpine snowstorm is not enough these days. Many people do not listen to music to hear structure and development, unless the destruction of the death star is involved.
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»Jim Hirsch | Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:25am
Hi Jeff,
Great post! Thanks for the shout-out about chicagoclassicalmusic.org, too! Working for an organization that has used video in the concert setting over the last few years (Chicago Sinfonietta), I tend to like it for a few reasons. First, it can add an exciting element to the concert experience for all attendees, especially when the repertoire has been played to death over the years. How do you make these experiences fresh? Second, if we are to attract younger audiences AND make the experience fun and relevant, then I think the tasteful use of video can be productive. If I had time, I could add more positives.
Keep on posting these interesting observations!
Jim Hirsch
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»Jeff_Turk | Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:02pm
Thanks Jim - this is really a great site, and I hope we can develop more interaction in the coming months!
I have enjoyed a lot of movie scores written over the past 50 years, and I don't want to come off as a real purist or snob. You certainly have more authority than I when it comes to music education. We must attract younger audiences. I recently attended the Brahms 1st on my 40th birthday. It is tough turning 40 - you feel your life is half over, you look at all of the things you could have done, and wasted opportunities over the years. I live in Madison, and the Madison Symphony happened to be playing the Brahms on my birthday. Well, you can't go wrong with Brahms - and the Symphony was fantastic! But as I looked around The Overture Center, I realized my wife and I were a couple of the youngest people in the audience. Not only was I inspired by the Brahms, but I also felt very young!
But back to reality - it is a little disturbing that the average age in attendance that night was probably 65 years old. So I am all in favor of doing what it takes within reason to get young people to the symphony (I am sorry, but I have to draw the line at "The Chicago Symphony Presents, The Music From Pee Wee's Playhouse..." All right, get a drink in me, and maybe I will change my mind on that!)
Maybe there is a happy medium... A Star Wars program featuring the music of Wagner, Strauss and with musical examples of the leitmotif.... Or how about Bernard Herrmann and the Theremin, featuring musical examples from Messiaen...
I only want to make sure we don't over compromise in attracting younger audiences to the concert/chamber hall. We have to make sure we give people credit - everyone I know likes classical music in some form or another. They just need direction on how to start and where to go.
Again, thanks for the great site and forum!
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