Our community dialogue piece continues with new faces and opinions of the Chicago Arts Community and YOU.
What do you think the field needs to do to build higher levels of participation?
Duffie Adelson, Merit School of Music
I strongly believe that building higher levels of participation begins with the creation of a stronger and broader presence of music education in public and private elementary and secondary schools. When children have “hands-on” experiences with music, they grow to feel that the musical language and tradition belongs to them. Talent and interest are equally spread everywhere. What is not equally distributed is access to musical exposure, nor access to a developmental pathway that can help a child develop a musical interest into a set of viable musical skills which allow for self-expression and can lead to a deeper connection to music.
Gail Mrozak, Elmhurst Choral Union
Maybe we need to remember how we all got started. Someone introduced us to a piece or two and we asked questions. We tried to find more similar pieces. (For folks in a certain age group, if you ask them what got them interested in classical music, they'll say, "The movie, 'Amadeus'.") Newcomers are different than old hands, and there is a place for creating ongoing points of entry.
Stephen Burns, Artistic Director, Fulcrum Point New Music Project
That, and a further encouragement of amateur practice and participation. People who play great music appreciate great music all the more.
Dileep Gangolli, Clarinet, Chicago Sinfonietta
Music education that occurs early in the education process is crucial. Also the issue of Classical music being elitist and for rich people has to end.
Jim Hirsch, Executive Director, Chicago Sinfonietta
Break down the barriers to participation including elements like cost (Grant Park draws thousands and thousands of people for every concert), location, arcane rules of behavior, etc. Do everything we can to educate both children and adults about the beauty and efficacy of the music. Make each performance an experience – not just another concert.
Allan Dennis, Director, Midwest Young Artists
Our education system needs to include music participation opportunities for every child and their families. In addition, we need to relate our major musical institutions to the educational system. In MYA’s case, once John Yeh, Charlie Pikler, Matthieu Dufour and Dale Clevenger got involved as soloists, in giving master classes, conducting sectionals and as mentors to our students, the students and their families attended more CSO concerts and events, became supporters and felt a relationship to CSO. It made the “gap” between “professional” and someone who cared about them less and, consequently, students and their families got more involved with the CSO’s activities.
As for what we can do to increase music opportunities for students, an emphasis on everyone participating should be first and foremost. Not everyone will participate in every music group but some sort of music activity where they are actually making music is important for them to have a long term relationship with music.
With shrinking school budgets, it is more and more important that administrators understand the importance of the arts in a children’s lives. For many it is the only activity that keeps them coming to schools.
At this time of no financial support, it is also more and more important that those of us who have musical gifts learn to give them back to the community. Share our love of music with students and their families. Create opportunities for others to be involved in the music making process.
Carolyn Paulin, Producer, Program Host, 98.7 WFMT
Grant Park is a model of goodness in that they make the cost truly affordable, have a space that attracts a hugely varied audience, and programs repertoire of great variety. This summer’s offerings were not at all typical summer concert fare - Mahler Symphony, Elgar Dream of Gerontius, etc. Great stuff.
Jonathan Miller, Artistic Director, Chicago a cappella
Waiting for audiences to show up because we think they “should” come to hear us is going to have about as much success as passing a public health-insurance option that many people thought we “should” have had! In his treatise What is Art?, Tolstoy said, “Art is an activity of man [in] which … one man consciously… transfers to others feelings experienced by him.” At its essence, that transfer of emotion is what any music has to do in order to be convincing. That is why ensembles and orchestras exist – it’s why we put on concerts. In my case it’s mostly about joy: I want others to experience something like the joy that I have found in living with certain pieces of music (even if they are sad, there is still a joy in experiencing and sharing them). Music simply must be convincing. It must be emotionally powerful. It must be sung and played with one’s entire being, it must “leave it all on the floor.” That’s why Billie Holiday and Maria Callas alike are still so revered. Fans want that intensity and excellence from basketball players, and they want it from classical musicians too. As long as programming passes the “so what?” test, it will work, and people will come, and funding will flow, because people have been moved. Of course ensemble staff and boards have to do the hard work of fundraising, but the fun and passion and quality of the product have to come first. If the producers of classical music don’t stay hip to this, their audiences will go away. If they do stay hip to it, they have a chance of surviving. We must as musicians adapt and be flexible. We must pay attention to the entire world of music around us so that we can have context for how and where our offerings might fit in. The most successful organizations already do this. My own organization is just starting to learn how to do this better, though I feel that our basic orientation is the right one: we have to put on programs that we ourselves really want to be part of and are excited about. That’s where it all begins.
Comments
Dudamel!
Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:16pm — Jeff_TurkI am going to sit down and watch Gustavo work his magic tonight. I recorded the concert with the LA Phil last week, and am looking forward to the Adams piece and the Mahler 1... I know there is a lot of hype surrounding him - and I am always skeptical of too much hype... but this guy seems to be the real deal, at least in terms of the draw he provides classical music. His work with young people and youth orchestras is very admirable.. I am looking forward to finally get to see an entire concert with him conducting. Is Time magazine right?! Is he our saviour?
Yes - Pay Attention!
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 6:15pm — Jeff_TurkThat is what you have to do.
I think you have a good idea about a storyteller that can engage people and give insight about Beethoven, the person that wrote some of the greatest music the western world has heard. That is education - and it is realistic.
But really at the core of this classical music controversy (I think I should insert a LOL there), is the fact that it is about the MUSIC. Not so much about the look on the face of the performer in the orchestra, the picnics, the fireworks after the piece is over, or even the laser light show. But rather where and why the notes in the music are placed where they are placed. There is a lot going on - many instruments, playing precisely, very complicated music.
Once you learn to hear everything that is going on, listening to an orchestra play a piece by a composer such as Beethoven is one of the most gratifying musical experiences there is. The key is understanding and listening, which involves education and study. If you aren't willing to sit down and do that, then I would suggest sticking to the rock bands you listen to. And I am not saying that in a snotty way - because I believe that you like what you like. And you are not a lesser person for not liking classical music.
If you have an interest in classical music, you will come around - and you won't need gimmicks such as picnics, fireworks or light shows to suck you in. You will learn that these things distract you from the music.
There is no other answer to the question of how to get a new generation interested and engaged in classical music. Get them young - and persist in exposing them to serious music. I suggest every classical enthusiast who has children play classical music every chance you get.
We have to understand that the CSO is never going to sell tickets or music at the clip of U2. Our goal as enthusiasts and musicians should NOT be figuring out how to become a part of the pop culture. We are and will always be an alternative - which ain’t a bad thing. It would be nice if everyone was interested in Beethoven, but to borrow a phrase from "Pay Attention," it is not realistic. At least without compromising the integrity of the masterworks.
I do not want to sound like a snoot. But I really love the music the way it is, and do not want anything to interfere with a good performance. I hate the thought of manipulating it for the sake of snagging a few window shoppers. All right SNOOTY! Guilty as charged!
Really?!
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 11:01pm — AnonymousYou're being ridiculous and closed minded. I'm going to make this short.
1. THERE IS NO ONE WAY TO TAKE IN ART.
2. Who are you to say what the most gratifying musical experience is sir?
3. That is NOT the only way to engage people in Classical Music in fact for me it was watching cartoons, for friends it was their favorite band referencing a composer, and there are MANY other ways for someone to become involved later in life.
4. Funny you should say you shouldn't need to extras because the grant park concerts have been instrumental in exposing friends to the world of classical music.
This type of thought is exactly what I was referring to in part 1 when I referred to the community as having a pretentious image.
Yes--and No
Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:02pm — AnonymousYou're right. There is no one way to take in art.
But I think that other posts are trying to suggest that Grant Park and other free/inexpensive outdoor concerts have their pros and cons.
The pros are the chance to combine the music with a picnic and a chance to move about. The cons include trying to listen to the music while others converse nearby or planes fly overhead or trains rumble through (Ravinia, anyone?).
As a parent, I love free outdoor music events. I can take my family, and if their attention wanes, I don't feel obliged to stay to the end to get my money's worth.
My ensemble has been privileged to participate in free outdoor concerts as well, and we've enjoyed them, but I don't think any of our singers would say it's an easy setting in which to put on one's best performance. Music dissipates in the open air quickly (singing even more than instruments), and not all outdoor venues have good and balanced amplification.
FWIW, there has been a major long-term study of marketing orchestras in the U.S. which found that giving free concerts did not result in later ticket sales. It seems that free concerts attract people who like to go to free events.
-Gail Mrozak
Elmhurst Choral Union
Pretentious?
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 7:30am — Jeff_TurkI agree with you in that there is no one way to take in art. But I thought you saying education not being "realistic" was ridiculous. Can we assume for a moment that people not familiar with the classics can understand and enjoy the music in the way it should be presented? That’s pretentious?!
Venues like the Grant Park concerts are nice, because it does at least expose many people to classical music. I live in Madison, and we have a similar event called “Concerts On The Square” where people picnic on the state capital grounds and listen to the Wisconsin Chamber Orchestra. Ultimately though, the music is in background – with all of the other things going on with eating, talking, cars driving by and so on. It is an enjoyable event. Just like the Grant Park concerts are. But call me pretentious – it is not the way to experience the music for sake of the music.
My bottom line: Classical music is what it is. If you enjoy Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody in a Bugs Bunny cartoon more than you would in a concert hall, I am not going to question it. But are you enjoying the music for the sake of music – or because it supplements the cartoon. When your favorite band references a composer – are you enjoying the piece by the composer, or the piece being manipulated by your favorite band? And finally with the Grant Park concerts – are you enjoying the music in the background as you eat, picnic and commiserate with your friends? At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how and where you enjoy your music. No one can tell you what you like or don't like.
But I would encourage you to then take it a step further and go to a concert hall and listen to the music the way it was intended to be listened to – for the sake of the music. I think if you enjoy what you hear in a cartoon or at Grant Park, you will really enjoy that same music in a concert hall setting – where it is just you and the music, with nothing in between.
We don’t need to apologize for classical music. The masterworks will be around long after we are dead. Perhaps we are being pretentious in thinking we have to change things in order to keep it “alive.” I believe people will step up to the challenge if standards are set high. Educating people on the ins and outs of classical music is not pretentious.
Educating audiences
Wed, 10/28/2009 - 8:06am — Jim HirschJeff & Anon,
There is actually some pretty interesting data that correlates musical education or actual experience playing an instrument with classical music attendance. Further, there was a fascinating study done by Alan Brown about the intrinsic value of the arts that demonstrated that bringing context (read understanding, knowledge) to a performance significantly increases ones level of enjoyment. Is music education critical to the future of classical music? Is water and air critical for life on earth?
Jim Hirsch
In Total Agreement...
Wed, 10/28/2009 - 11:18am — Jeff_TurkAnd there is not much I could add to what you said, except for the fact that I think most people would be surprised at how much more they would enjoy all types of music - classical, popular, etc., with a better understanding of the structure and context that can only be gained through music education. Since my study of classical music began some 20 years ago, I have been amazed at how much I enjoy and appreciate popular music more (and in some cases less) because of the fact that I took the time to understand some basic principles in composition and structure.
"Can we assume for a moment
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 10:05am — Anonymous"Can we assume for a moment that people not familiar with the classics can understand and enjoy the music in the way it should be presented?"
My confusion lies in the fact in your insistence on a way classical music "should" be presented. WHY should it be presented in such a specific way? Why not present it in a different setting to draw in people so they can in the end be exposed to the music as opposed to never being able to hear it live because someone decided it has to be presented in a certain way.
"Ultimately though, the music is in background – with all of the other things going on with eating, talking, cars driving by and so on. It is an enjoyable event. Just like the Grant Park concerts are. But call me pretentious – it is not the way to experience the music for sake of the music."
Again, your commentary on the way art should be consumed, sounds contradictory after agreeing there is no one way art to take in art. Who's to say someone won't hear a piece in grant park and have it completely consume them so much so they go to see that composers next piece at the CSO? Who's to say those concerts don't encourage participation at other venues.
"At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how and where you enjoy your music"
This is what I'm getting at. Classical music is a beautiful under appreciated art-form, WHO CARES how people end up appreciating it, the whole question of this post is how can we build participation, why not play with settings and introductions, even lighting so that it can still be centered around music but have it's own unique experience and not be "just another concert" as Jim said.
And as to your comments about the entire cartoon thing, my point is certain new ways of hearing the music open the doors of appreciation for the music. For example one of my favorite pieces is Clair de Lune at one point I was listening to it daily for months but I would have had a hard time discovering that song if it weren't for hearing it in movies and being curious what it was and looking up Debussy. Now he's one of my favorite composers. So maybe your right, maybe people need to just be educated, however, maybe it's grant park concerts, or unique concert experiences that will be that education.
When Nerds Collide
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 11:24am — Jeff_TurkWould love to see your name associated with your responses so I could properly address you, fellow music nerd.
I do believe the composers of traditional classical music for the most part intended the consumer listen to the music for sake of the music. But I also do believe that it is possible to enjoy classical music at a park, in a mall, in a car or on an iPod. And perhaps those vehicles are best for snagging potential clients.
But I am sick of the word pretentious getting thrown around when talking about performing classical music in the venue it should be performed. Why did we bother spending the millions on Symphony Center if we can't promote it for fear of being called pretentious. I will stick to my guns in saying that the only way to get everything out of a piece of classical music is to hear it performed by professionals in a controlled environment.
I think we are probably closer in agreement on a lot of things than it appears here - but at the risk of sounding pretentious, the CSO performing the Mahler 9th in Symphony is a better musical experience than them performing it at Grant Park. I think we have to be able to promote that experience better, and not feel sheepish for doing so.
And I've never said that
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 11:46am — AnonymousAnd I've never said that music shouldn't be performed in a very basic and natural way, with the focus on the music because I agree I think it should. What I don't think is that more promotion of the same thing that people aren't showing interest in will lead to people all of a sudden caring. The idea I keep trying to get across is get them through the door first, give them something they want and then integrate the classic way.
The L.A. Philharmonic had one of my favorite Indie Rock bands Grizzly Bear play a show where they (the philharmonic) first played the songs that influenced them and songs similar to their music then let them play a set. Hand out a discount coupon for the next philharmonic show at the end and if I liked what I saw theres a 100% chance I'm coming back to see the full classical show.
There are so many concert options for young people with eclectic taste, now more than ever EVERY form of music needs to present its own unique experience to pull people in.
As for the name I'm at work and forgot to log-in. My names Nick Terry my username is nterry05.
Good Points Nick -
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 3:11pm — Jeff_TurkI hear ya! I like the LA Phil promotion idea. Hopefully everyone will take advantage of that. They have a new guy now that I have heard is pretty good ;)
If Gustavo can't get people pumped up and interested in classical music, who can!?
JT
Pay attention to what's happening around media.
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 12:48pm — nterry05Okay, so the education thing is great but at the end of the day that just isn't realistic. Why not just look at what's happening in other forms of music, dissect it and think of ways it can be applied to classical music without sacrificing any ideals.
Here's the thing, if I wanted to see whichever rock band I'm listening to at the time but I hear their show is just them sitting down and playing the album through getting up and leaving I'm probably NOT going to go to the show. Thats the view people often get when considering classic concerts. Here's the thing, when grant park throws free concerts outside where people can lay down, have a picnic, move around and be comfortable it ends up being a rare concert experience and once everyones halfway into the symphony that experience no longer matters as much, it's about what it's suppose to be about... the music.
People need something to engage them and with classical music, you can't see the performers completely engulfed by emotion during the cresendo of the piece because thats just not how classical music is performed. What you can do is have a short explaination of Beethovens life story done by a GOOD storyteller that can engage people and explain some different interpretations of the piece in way that would be engaging to the average listener.
You can do SO MANY things to change the experience without changing the music itself. If a show is truely outstanding, people will spread the word and people will come.
And lastly, hire young people like myself who will give you a direct insight into future target demographics and at the same time constantly being coming up with new ideas, haha.
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